Managing your energy levels with The SEO Mindset

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Jack: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Search With Candour. I am your host, Jack Chambers-Ward, and it's a lovely little crossover podcast special with my fantastic friends over at the SEO Mindset this week. It is essentially our little recap episode from our live podcast that we did in Brighton a little while ago just before BrightonSEO in September 2023.

I'm joined by Sarah and Tazmin. We're going to recap the topics that we talked about and the discussion because we never actually got the recording for that podcast. This is essentially our way to say, "You missed out. Sorry, but you missed out." So come to the next one essentially is the message of this podcast.

Sponsored by SISTRIX

Before I get to talking with Sarah and Tazmin, I'd like to say a huge thank you to this week's sponsor. Of course, the wonderful SISTRIX who also sponsored the live podcast as well. You can go to, you can get a free trial of their fantastic service. You get to try out some of their free tools as well. And of course, the latest from SISTRIX is all about the core update that's just happened. And now following that, the Google helpful content update that is happening in September 2023. So the fantastic Steve Payne over at SISTRIX is going through all of the ups and downs of any significant domains that are losing visibility due to this helpful content update. I've seen a lot of chatter about this on X and LinkedIn and even stuff on Mastodon and Bluesky as well.

A lot of people are saying there is some pretty bad results. Essentially a lot of spammy rubbish is actually getting rewarded, whereas legitimate sites are getting kicked down a few pegs. And for the most part, the SISTRIX data actually says that it is spammy stuff that is getting the real kicking for the most part. But there are some interesting and significant sites in there as well. Steve breaks down 25 and you can go all the way to 150 small and medium-sized domains that have lost visibility significantly during the update. And if you already have an account with SISTRIX, you can click through and see in more detail there straight from the article that is available on Go and check out Steve's latest data from the helpful content update that is currently happening in 2023 in September. And of course links for that will be in the show notes at Thank you once again for sponsoring us SISTRIX.

Managing your energy levels with Sarah McDowell and Tazmin Suleman

And I am joined by my lovely co-host. Hello, Sarah McDowell. How are you?

Sarah: I'm very well. How about yourself?

Jack: Doing all right. Doing all right. We are recording together. I love podcasting with you guys. It's nice to actually sit down and record another podcast with you guys.

Sarah: Yes. And we also have Tazmin.

Tazmin: Hello everyone. Hello, Jack. Hello, Sarah.

Sarah: Howdy. Howdy. Well, this feels weird because we normally do these podcasts together in front of an audience and we don't have anyone watching us.

Jack: That we know of.

Sarah: That we know of.

Tazmin: We can imagine it in our heads, everyone in the audience like they were the other day.

Jack: Exactly, exactly. And what we're talking about, by the way, is we recorded an in-person live podcast event when we were in Brighton for BrightonSEO earlier on in September. But unfortunately, there were some technical difficulties and stuff. But we are going to deliver a podcast nonetheless. We promised you a podcast and a crossover event, so by gosh darn it, we're going to deliver one. Right guys?

Sarah: And we are resilient, right?

Jack: Exactly.

Sarah: This is an example of things go wrong that are out of your control. Okay, what can we do about technical issues? Nothing. There's no way to get that audio back unless we've got a time machine. So we are just going to... I mean, Jack, Tazmin, any time machines knocking about?

Tazmin: So no, I've had that ghost film in my head and now you've got Back To The Future in my head as well.

Jack: There are very worse films to have in your head bank, even with my physics degree, I'm afraid, I have no use with time machines, unfortunately, as much as I'd like to be.

Sarah: But what we can do is we can talk about the event and have it more of a reflection, what we talked about, and also it'll give you, our listeners, FOMO and you want to be there next time, fear of missing out.

Jack: Exactly.

Sarah: There you go. Get yourself...

Jack: We're going to do it again, right? We're planning to do it hopefully pretty much around every BrightonSEO. So fingers crossed in about six months time when it swings back around in April we'll be doing another live podcast event again. So yeah, if you do feel like you missed out on the last one, there'll be another one coming up in a few months as well. So hopefully this will also build your excitement as well as gathering and building some FOMO as well.

Tazmin: Besides, we've got banners now, doesn't that make it official if we have a banner.

Jack: That's well official. Exactly. We've got two banners that doesn't get more official than that.

Tazmin: We've got two banners.

Sarah: Even though Jack did get an injury from the banners, but I don't know if you want to talk about that.

Jack: It has now healed, yeah. But literally before we even started recording, this is before anybody was in the room or anything like that, we were getting set up, we were getting the stalls all set up and stuff, this amazing venue at projects in the globe room, and we've got these nearly seven foot tall banners. I really underestimated how tall they were, and I'm six foot two, I'm a big guy. I was like, "Thank God I'm here. I can reach right to the top and really stretch up and hook it up." And I didn't hook it up, did I? I was a fool and missed the little hook thing, and it came sliding down and the top metal of it slammed into my thumb and cut my thumb open. And yeah, so 10 minutes before people started arriving, I was bleeding everywhere, but it wasn't anywhere near as dramatic as I'm making it sound. It was a little cut on my thumb and it's just about healed and scarring over here. Again, not for the listeners, but for Sarah and Tazzie, you might be able to see a little line across my thumb there. That's just a little scar there.

Tazmin: Very, very brave, Jack.

Jack: I know, I'm a big brave boy. Thank you, Tazmin.

Sarah: Oh God, that made me cringe!

Tazmin: It was a really great evening, though.

Jack: It may have started off badly with me cutting my thumb open, but it was a really good evening. Yeah, absolutely. And we had some fantastic people there with us, some returning people from the previous episode we'd done live as well, and some brand new people, some familiar faces, and some new faces. BrightonSEO speakers, Brighton attendees, people that were not going to BrightonSEO. It was really nice to have another group of people there. And our topic was all about managing your energy levels for conferences, and it kind of even expanded out of that. We are not just talking about conferences as relevant as that was to the audience there and us talking about BrightonSEO and all that kind of stuff. We also ended up talking about managing your energy levels in everyday life and a lot of principles that can apply to both as well, right?

Sarah: Yeah. So what I think would be good is if we did a little recap, obviously we can't do it all again as much as we'd love to be able to do that, but we can definitely do a recap and main takeaways. And let's start with where the conversation started, okay? So we started by talking about what is meant by energy management, and obviously when we think about energy management, we tend to think straight to physical energy, but it's also your mental energy and this is largely impacted by what you think and how you perceive different situations, right?

Tazmin: Yeah. And I think going on a step from that, when we think about physical energy, we think about consuming it, consuming the food, consuming the hydration. And we think that when we are losing it's when we are exercising. So that's the sort of equation we have in our minds. But we don't often think about what do I do to enhance my mental energy, what things to consume? And equally, we don't really think about where we are losing that mental energy. So things like perfectionism, people pleasing, overthinking, these are all ways that we are losing energy. So I feel like the mental, emotional energy just doesn't get talked about enough. But when you go to places, Brighton that's the thing that depletes you because Brighton isn't physically draining, nobody's asking you to run around Brighton Center 10 times. Mind you, it does feel like you're walking around Brighton Center 10 times to find the rooms, but it's the emotional energy that you're depleting.

Sarah: Yeah. And it's not a bottomless pit either, is it? And I think what was really good to hear is all of our experiences of where we have been in that situation where we've drained all of our energy. I remember when I first started going to conferences and I remember the first BrightonSEO, afterwards, I was a shell of a human. I just wanted to go find a dark room, stare at a wall. Okay, that's a bit dramatic. I didn't want to do those things. But yeah, it was really draining and actually reflecting back on it, and it was all because I wasn't aware of what my body needed, but also my mind. What do you reckon, Jack?

Jack: Yeah, definitely. I'm the similar kind of way. I talked about this funnily enough on the last episode we did live, I was talking about how introverted I am and how I really need that quiet time and alone time to recharge. And I can use a lot of energy. I can switch it on and be very social and be podcast host Jack or event host Jack or whatever I need to be. But really I need to sit down, lie down, read a book, play a video game or something like that and just have a relaxing moment by myself to have that recharging moment. I don't know quite a few people in the audience when we were there in Brighton as well, we're talking about how they need those moments of don't be afraid to go and take a post-lunch nap or something like that. You don't have to attend absolutely everything. You need to understand how to pace yourself physically and mentally for how you're going to approach a full two day, sometimes even three or four-day event. You could be attending training, you could be doing the fringe events as well. It can quickly turn into what feels like an entire week's worth of socializing and energy using in a couple of days. And taking those moments specifically to have some quiet time to recharge, to not be fully switched on, I think is hugely, hugely important for me, I don't know for plenty of other people as well, to have those ways to balance and really manage your energy levels and kind of pace yourself over the long period of the conference.

Sarah: A hundred percent, hundred percent.

Tazmin: So I remember on the evening I used the analogy of a phone and that seemed to land really well, so I'm going to share that again.

Jack: Multiple people made that analogy to me as we were going like, "Oh, the phone thing is so good." We always are thinking about the phones. It really, really resonated with people.

Sarah: Okay, so before you do share that, because the second part of the conversation... So we had a talk about what energy management was, why it's important, we all shared experiences, and then the second part of the conversation was we were sharing practical tips, weren't we? And advice of how you can better manage your energy. And yeah, it's great. Tazmin, go with your mobile energy, mobile phone energy. Mobile phone energy? You know what I'm on about?

Tazmin: Most of us have a mobile phone, most of us have a smartphone and we take care of it. We will plug it in every evening, fully charge it, take it out the next day. And if we are going to an event Brighton, we will make sure we take a charger or we'll take a power bank or we'll take something and we check in with our phone all the time, "Oh, it's 92% charge, I'm okay." Then it starts depleting. And then when it gets to 10, you think, "Oh no, I need to find some way of charging up my phone." If it runs out of charge, it gets to zero and just stops working. And at that time there is no one to blame, but really yourself because you didn't look after it, you weren't mindful of it.

But what about you? What precautions have you taken before you go to a conference or before you go on a plane journey or whatever? How often do we spend our time daily charging ourselves? And we look after our phones better than we look after ourselves? So what is your charging routine? Do you check in with yourself to check where that energy level is? What sort of things are going to give you a boost? What's your charger? How do you look after yourself if you go to places like Brighton? And I think that landed because it's something that we use every day. It's something that everyone has and they know how they look after their phone.

Sarah: And I suppose it's easy. It's easy, isn't it? You see your phone and you see that the battery's going down, so you're like, "Oh, I need to charge it." But I suppose the complexity with when it comes to charging your own battery, that's where it's so important for self-awareness and sort of understanding, "Okay, what drains me and what recharges me?" So at BrightonSEO SEO, I was proud of myself because I said no to things, so I could say yes to me, right. You could see how I'm very happy with that though, proud little moment. Because yeah, it's a journey and I'm still learning. But for the past few years I've really tried to understand, "Okay, what do I need as a human?" And as much as I love being around people, I'm a people person and I love to socialize, it drains me and I need time for myself just to step away or doesn't necessarily have to be by myself. I remember during BrightonSEO, I was feeling that my energy levels were depleted and I needed to do something about it, and I bumped into Billie Geena.

Jack: Shout out to Billie Geena. Billie's awesome.

Tazmin: Absolutely.

Sarah: Shout out to Billie Geena, wonderful human. And she did an amazing session, didn't she, with John Mueller on the main stage. So yeah, and I bumped into Billie Geena, and we had a little chitchat and we were like, "Oh, how are you?" I was like, "Oh, I'm just overwhelmed. I'm a bit tired. It's so busy, so much stuff going on." And I was like, "I think I just need to go to Costa next door. It's much more quiet over there." And Billie came with me and it was just so nice to come out of the busyness of that conference center conference and take a step away. And it was only for half an hour. But that did me the world of good because I went into Costa had my I think it was a peach iced tea something or other, and we just sat, had a little conversation. It was just two of us and it helped me. So there's an example of what I did.

Tazmin: I remember after one of the lunches, I just went back to the hotel, so I'm tired and I'm not going to be able to get through the rest of Thursday. And then I have the talk on Friday. So I just went and on the walk home I bought myself a gelato, strolled along, had a nap, and then I came back fully revived.

Sarah: Nice. Jack, what were you doing? How were you managing your energy levels?

Jack: Well, I had my nice little table in the corner with Neurodivergence in SEO, we were positioned kind of near the cloak room between Women in Tech SEO and with the glitch guys and B Digital as well, all that kind of community partners and stuff. I still feel like I'm there. I still feel like I'm part of it, but I was able to just... I know there's a chair available because that's my table. So I can go and sit down and chill out. And sometimes I'd just be on my own and I'd be like, oh, hello. And just wave at a couple of people or I'd just sit and relax and drink and eat the cupcakes there, or whatever it was. It was the leftover cupcakes from the live podcast, funnily enough. So you missed more FOMO for missing out on cupcakes folks. And it was nice to have a almost like a little home base, a little section where I could just go and chill out. We all talked about this when we did our neurodivergent SEO meetup on the Friday. How there is this kind of pressure from a lot of us, and it's something I brought up on the live podcast as well. There's that masking element to a lot of neurodivergent people of like, you present your best self because if you go fully in with all of your present ADHD or autistic traits or whatever it is, it can be pretty full on for people. And a lot of them are not typically socially acceptable and stuff like that. So there's this term called masking where neurodivergent people learn to present themselves and we learn to do things slightly differently and adjust our behavior. So we fit in more easily into neurotypical social structures and stuff like that. And it was nice when we all got together, we are all able to be fully weird and unmasked and just be like, "Ta-da, we're all a bunch of neurodivergent weirdos." And I say that with all the love in the world as one myself, and it was this nice little moment. And that was the real big feedback we got was like, because that was the first in-person meetup we'd ever done for that community. We're all able to just kind of be ourselves, especially at a conference is kind of a rare thing. I said earlier, "Oh, I'm able to switch it on." And I mean that pretty literally, I really have to go suddenly like, "Okay, fine. I'm not going to be miserable, grumpy jack now." I'm going to be like, "Hey, how are you? Oh my God, big hugs." It's like it's a real conscious decision for me to switch into that social mode and to have a nice little space where I could just kind of chill out and not be so on was really, really helpful.

Sarah: That's so wonderful to hear that you created a safe space for neurodivergent people that were there, but I think it's the same principle across the board. So not to take away from what you said, because yeah, what you said was very important, and I wasn't aware of this masking and thing that you just spoke about, so that was interesting to learn about. But I think we all need to understand what people are energy drainers and what people are energy... What's the opposite?

Jack: Replenishers.

Sarah: What's the opposite?

Jack: Chargers?

Sarah: Chargers, replenishers. So something that...

Jack: Topper uppers?

Sarah: Topper uppers. And it's not a negative thing that people drain your energy. So I find that people that I'm closer to or someone that I can have a little hug with or someone that I can be me... Because I think when you're meeting new people or everyone to a certain extent puts the best version of themselves, don't they? I'm fortunate that I've been in the industry for a while and I've got people that I can call friends and that's just wonderful because I can be myself and I can take the pressure off myself a bit. And there was a couple of times where someone gave me a hug and I was like, "Oh, I really did need that. Thank you." A little power up right there. So yeah, Tazmin, I bet you've got lots of wonderful stuff to say on this matter.

Tazmin: And yeah, that's one of the things that we spoke about in the live, that one tip to have going into conferences, know who those people are for you and keep in touch with them and spend time with them. So you may be going around the Center, going around to talks, doing your speaking, whatever, but knowing that in 45 minutes or at lunchtime, I'm going to meet so-and-so, and so-and-so, and that's your recharging. And I think it doesn't have to be, Jack, you were talking about your neurodivergent group. It can be like Sarah said, people that and people that you are comfortable being yourself with. And what made me giggle was at the end of everything, we came and camped in your little area of BrightonSEO and I had that raspberry slushy and it completely went to my head. I broke. I literally couldn't stop giggling, but I didn't mind. It was fine because I was with friends, whereas I think I'd been a bit mortified if I'd been like that with somebody else.

Sarah: Yeah. But this is it, right? Yeah, it's so important, isn't it? And obviously if you are new in an industry and you're going to conferences for the first time, if you're not in a fortunate position where you've got friends or you don't know people, this is a great opportunity to put yourself out there. For example, in the Women in Tech SEO community, shout out to Areej AbuAli, wonderful organization.

Jack: Shout out to Areej, she's the best.

Sarah: But what's really nice to see is people will say, oh, it's the first time that I'm going to BrightonSEO, is that anyone else's first time? And then you can kind of create a little group there, even if it's just one other person that you can be like, "You know what? You are my safe space." And you don't know what's going to come from that. They might just be there for you during BrightonSEO and they're your person that you can feel safe and you can do whatever, but you might end up having a long and fruitful friendship, like the three of us have.

Tazmin: Absolutely. And for people who have never been and are going to the next one, one big tip that we shared on the night is don't feel that you've got to go to all of the talks and don't feel like you've got to take copious notes of everything because you're not going to be able to implement everything that you learn at BrightonSEO. It's overwhelming. So pick and choose your talks, know why you're going to see them. And it could be, "I don't want to learn anything about that topic, but I've heard that person's a really great speaker, so I'm going to use it as a masterclass on how to do a public talk." Or, "I want to learn about that thing, but I don't really want to learn about anything else on the schedule so I can just slip away."

Sarah: Yeah, yeah. If only I knew because the first time I went to BrightonSEO, I was that person that was going to every talk.

Jack: Me too, yeah.

Sarah: Coming back with reams pages of to-dos notes and you're just not going to do it. There's too much on your plate because why you get caught up in the BrightonSEO-ness, stupid word. But you have all these wonderful ideas and stuff, but you've got to be realistic because you're going to go back to your job and you've got your other priorities, you've got your other campaigns and stuff. I'm not saying don't try and implement anything, but even if you took away two or three things that you can really focus on and really do, that's much better than putting all this pressure with all these reams of notes because what are you going to do with all of that? You can't implement it all. So prioritization is important.

Tazmin: Yeah, absolutely.

Jack: Yeah, and we talked about a couple of different things in terms of what you can do to kind of plan stuff out. We're talking about that now, right? Thinking about how you don't have to go to everything. And how I do that is I plan my schedule out ahead of time and I kind of prioritize stuff. And I have, these are the talks... Exactly as you were saying there, Tazmin. Lik maybe, "I have never seen this person speak live, but I've seen them on YouTube, I've heard them on podcasts. I need to hear them speak live. Oh my God, they're like a hero of mine in terms of public speaking." Or it's a topic I'm really interested in and I want to learn about more or a part of professional development or whatever it is.

I prioritize a handful and I literally mean upwards of five and no more that I really, really, really want to go and see. And then the rest of the schedule kind of falls around those kind of things. And I want to kind of make sure I'm not exactly as you did and I did, Sarah, the first time. "I want to go to 35 talks across two days." I'm running from auditorium one to over to auditorium two, then background to the syndicate stage, then background to the auditorium again. And as we were saying, you spend half your time running around dodging people like, "Oh, hello, sorry, I'll see you in a bit." And then just you run past again and it's like there's this whole franticness and rashness to it.

But actually planning yourself out and knowing, "Okay, I know I've got a talk at 11 o'clock and I've got a talk at two o'clock that I really want to go to, but between then maybe I'll find somebody to have lunch with, maybe I can text my friend who I know is in the area is at the conference and we can hang out for a bit."Or in my case, it gave me an opportunity to do some interviews. I was recording podcast stuff. So if you are hearing this on the Search With Candour podcast, that was last week's episode was my bits between the talks, going around and interviewing people and doing other bits and pieces. And that planning is so key for me to not completely burn myself out and I already go in with an expectation set realistically rather than a really high expectation of, "Oh God, I need to do everything as much as possible and make the most of it."

Tazmin: So I did not do the planning that Jack did, and I could feel that it was my energy because then people ask me, "What talk are you going to?" I'm thinking, "I don't know, I haven't done this yet." But when I left on the Thursday afternoon, went back to the hotel, thought to myself, "I'm going to miss that next session." I did go through the talks for the rest of Thursday and Friday and decide these are the ones I'm going to do, and instantly it made me feel better, instantly.

Sarah: And you did something as well, Tazmin, because I messaged didn't I all in the morning like, "Oh, let's go and meet for breakfast." And it was great, you put your boundary, you put your needs first, and you were like, "Do you know what Sarah? As much as that sounds wonderful, I just need time for me." And I want more people to say no to other people, do you know what I mean?

Jack: Yeah, definitely.

Sarah: Everyone's understanding. I didn't get upset or angry with you at all. And I was like, You know what, Tazmin? I don't blame you, you do it."

Tazmin: But it was hard. It was hard to say no. I crafted that text message three times and I thought, "What are you you doing, Tazmin? We literally talked about this yesterday. You are tired." I had so much to get done before I even got to BrightonSEO. I know everybody does, but talk about me now, and you know, age and all of that. I was shuttered by the time I got there and I was really conscious that Friday was going to be a busy day. So Thursday was my only chance to recoup. And then I thought, "It's okay. Sarah will understand." I'd love to have breakfast with you, Sarah, however, I'm going to take this opportunity just to chill. And I think leading on from that, which is something that we'd mentioned on the night when you are meeting people or if you see somebody at BrightonSEO and they're just sitting on their own, ask first before you plow into a conversation with them. And something happened because on Thursday night, Jack and I had gone to... It was a very nice dinner.

Jack: Thank you Gareth and Annika, you are awesome for supporting us and getting us some dinner.

Tazmin: And it was a lovely event. Everyone was really chilled. And yeah, Gareth, sorry, I thought you were a waiter and asked you to get... I thought he was a waiter, asked him to get me a serviette.

Sarah: Oh, dear.

Jack: They must've been like “God, this big leaguing podcasters coming in here and just bossing us around!”

Tazmin: I spilled a glass of water. It fell around the plate, but some of it I'm sure fell into that man's chicken stew. But he very, very graciously did not make a fuss about it and just carried it on eating and we just mopped around. Anyway, Jack asked me a question and it wasn't going to be a simple answer. It was going to be a long answer. So I said, "Look, it's a bit of a story. Are you ready for a story?" And Jack said, "Yeah, I'm ready for a story." Because I was tired, I knew he was tired and just because we were sat next to each other doesn't mean that we have to keep on talking. But told him the story about how I met my husband.

Sarah: Wonderful. Right. Wow, time is ticking by because time does, right? That's what time does. But is there anything else that anyone wants to share or did we say you should have been there?

Jack: I mean, you would definitely say that.

Tazmin: You should have been there.

Sarah: We always say that.

Tazmin: We covered choice of language. Instead of saying, "I have to be at a conference." Say, "I get to go to a conference." That will just change your mindset around it. We talked about so much and the thing that we won't be able to easily replicate or actually not replicate at all, is the advice that the audience gave us. So one thing that stuck in my mind is Alice Rowan's advice.

Jack: Shout out to Alice Rowan as well. She's awesome.

Tazmin: She was great. She's done that... Yeah, she is. And she did TikTok, whatever you call it. Are they called reels on TikTok?

Jack: Just a TikTok, yeah.

Tazmin: About her day in BrightonSEO where she gave a talk and then she went for a nap and she said that's what I was going to do. But she has a phrase that she uses for her Mondays.

Jack: Bare minimum Mondays is her... Yeah.

Tazmin: Bare minimum. Because we were talking about starting the week, all energized, but feeling burnt out by the end of Monday. And she says that on Mondays, all she does is check her emails. So I think that was really great advice.

Sarah: Yeah, then she said that, then you sort of set up your expectation for what you're going to achieve that day and you can always check your emails. But then what she said as well is if you do achieve anything else, then you feel like, "Yeah, I got this." But yeah, so it's always wonderful. And I suppose that's why we're urging people to come to the actual events in person is because it's not just the three of us that are talking and sharing about our experiences, but it's also hearing from people as well, that's really valuable.

Jack: Yeah, definitely. I think there's a huge factor in having- Tazmin: Definitely.

Jack: ... the speakers there and the attendees there and people talking about their experiences from both perspectives. Using Alice as a perfect example there. We were talking at the new divergent meetup afterwards and we were saying the big reason a part of coming to BrightonSEO is to learn stuff and network and that stuff, but you get to see your friends as well. And Alice is one of those people for me now, we have now become the people who hang out together a lot at BrightonSEO. It's like it's now a big part of Brighton is seeing the people who you feel most comfortable with. And we are creating this little group of like, "Yeah, we all really hanging out with each other and having that moment."

And saying those expectations for Bare minimum Mondays, is the last thing I'll say about this because you should have been there to hear the rest of it, listeners, is something Alice and I have also learned from Myriam Jessier as well is planning your meetings as well because they can be super, super draining. The same applies to talks, the same applies to you if you're doing meetings at conferences as well. I don't envy those people who have to then go off and do a client call and then run off to a talk. I've never done it, but I know plenty of people do. They have to do work while they're there as well. But planning those out and making sure you have time before to prep and time after to recover, so you're not, as I said earlier, literally running from one to the other makes such a huge difference for me. And I have now applied that to my working week as well, as much as I can.

I'm not my own boss and stuff, but Myriam and Alice being freelancers can really, really tailor this to their energy levels and their mood and things like that is don't book a bunch of stuff happening on a Friday afternoon. Don't book a bunch of client calls first thing on a Monday if that's not how you are. Maybe you are brilliant on a Monday and that's when you should book all of your stuff on a Monday. What I've done over the last few months is record my energy levels and mood as I'm going through the week. Oh, Tuesday afternoon is always brilliant for me and I'm my most productive. Whereas Thursday morning, I'm my worst or whatever. Understanding yourself and learning that really has helped me then plan out my week and if I know there's a really important piece of work that needs doing, I can then use that focus time and the high energy time to really get it done and then plan around, "Oh, I cannot be dealing with three client calls in a row on a Monday. I do not have the energy for this." And knowing that applies to conferences, it applies to my work week as well. It's something I've learned from both Alice and Myriam over knowing them over the last couple of years.

Sarah: Wonderful. I mean, it's just hearing all this such great advice and it's just, it all boils down to just being kinder to yourself and putting yourself first and not saying yes to everything and learning about yourself and yeah, I said earlier that I'm on that journey of getting to know who I am, being more self-aware and I'm always going to be learning and yeah, it's not scary. Well, I suppose it is a bit scary because you feel like you are opening up a bit of you that you've not done before, so you're like, "Oh, what's going to come out?" But do you know what? As soon as you start being more curious and if anything, the next week just shut down. So whatever activities, whether that's something that you're doing for work or something socially or admin or whatever, while you are going through it, just jot down how your energy levels work and then the more that you do this, the more that you become aware. So the next time you're at a conference or the next time that you are in a energy draining scenario, you know, "Okay, I know what I need to do so that I'm not a shell of a human when I come to the end of the conference." Right. So yeah, right, I think that's it really, we've covered as much as we can and you're just going to have to be there next time, aren't you?

Jack: Exactly. That's the thing to take away is come to the next one. That's the thing to take away.

Sarah: Wow. What we can do is, so we've put together a Google form that we can pop in the show notes. So the plan is that every time there's a BrightonSEO, every time there's a conference at an event, me, Jack and Tazmin will be there to do a live podcast. And we always pick topics that are related to conferences and stuff. So we've done anxiety, we've done energy levels. So we'll carry on picking because we've scratched the surface, haven't we guys?

Tazmin: Absolutely.

Jack: There's plenty more to discuss.

Sarah: There's so much that we can tap into. So yeah, so check out in the show notes, look out for that Google form and you can sign up and then we can keep you in the loop about the live events and when you can get tickets and all the information so you can be with us next time, and we promise not to spam.

Jack: We're SEO people, we won't spam you, we promise.

Sarah: So wonderful. Wow. Well, thank you for a lovely conversation, Jack and Tazmin.

Jack: Same with you, Sarah.

Tazmin: Yeah, it's a lovely Friday afternoon.

Sarah: And yes, should we say goodbye then?

Jack: Goodbye then.

Tazmin: Goodbye everyone.

Sarah: Come on, Jack. I'll put you on the spot here. You say goodbye, you do the podcast and host thing.

Jack: I'll do a podcast host thing. I'll switch on and do the host thing. You can follow, of course, the Search With Candour podcast, search for us on any podcast apps, and same for SEO Mindset as well. Go and search the SEO Mindset or go to Go to and you can get either of us there. All of the show notes, all of the links, all that stuff for either of the podcasts. And there's also links for all of our social media stuff as well. So you can go follow myself, follow Sarah, and follow Tazmin on there as well.

Sarah: Wonderful. And we really hope to see as many faces at our next live podcast as possible. Goodbye.

Tazmin: Goodbye.